I want to run the Great winter Run in sub 20 on the 9th of January. I generally train for half marathons and therefore am training for a big aerobic base, but If Dathan Ritzenhein can go sub 13 on the basis of marathon training then im sure I can do sub 20! I do a lot of speed work and Im looking to be doing about 60-70 miles a week.

Does anyone have any sessions that I might try out? I'm a lover of track sessions but ill try anything at all.

Also, any race tips, as its clearly a very different race to a half, so any tips about pacing, warmups and so on would be more than welcome.

I'm presuming you are based near Edinburgh if you're planning to do the Great Winter run. If so, you might want to do some of the Edinburgh Parkruns that have just started. 5k time trials every saturday morning. You'd have a better chance of running sub 20 there than at the Winter run, which has a big, long hill to climb. Loses you at least 30 seconds compared to a flat route.

As for training, speed work is the key. track intervals at 5k race pace and faster is always good. Although you might find it very difficult to get in lots of speed work on a 60-70 mile week schedule.

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Running Goals for 2010
1. Sub 5 minute mile(Done in 04:53)
2. Sub 17 5k (Done in 16:57)
4. Sub 1:20 half marathon
4. Sub 36 10k

At the moment I can do 12x 400m in 92 second reps, so thats sub 20 pace. I can also do mile repeats. WOuld itbe recommended to do some more Kilometre repeats, perhaps only five and aim for about 3:50 a k?

Ive registered for parkrun, but the glasgow one. Can you just turn up anywhere? I might head through for one, never done it before. I was planning to do one in November to keep sharpness up/practice pacing.

Im based in Stirling! I run for Central Athletics club and Ill be wearing my vest for the first time this weekend!!

For the Great Winter Run speed work is key as JB has said but also hill training, get used to running up hills and also down hills. You can loose seconds if your down hill running is not up to it. I found I used to slow down going down hills as I was holding back.....

O.

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Yip, you can run at any of the Park Runs.

The vest will take 5seconds at least off your time Wear your vest with pride

O.

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I run up and down Dumyat once a fortnight which is a mega hill, so Im fairly good with hills. I also doa lot of hilly routes for my longer runs, I feel its good practice for races that have hills that you cant avoid!

Try running 3 sessions a week. That is what I've done to give myself an extra speed boost over the last few months.

Good sessions.

Tempor run - I hate this one (sold speed run)

What I do is:

Tempo reps - I take my normal ~35 min run - three repeats of 10 min fast & 2 min recovery, which often is virtually the same speed as my tempo runs, so clearly there's a problem with endurance in me somewhere.

Interval training - For now you should be doing endurance intervals over the winter.

Re your interval training, you sound a little slow, particularly for a sub 20 5k. I think it's perhaps either that you should be able to push yourself more or more likely you are not giving yourself enough recovery time.

I did 16x400m consistently at 75-80s so you are sounding a little slow to me. I think you misunderstand the pace you should be going at, I was told that these 400m intervals should be done at 3k pace - so they should be quite a few seconds faster than your 5k interval lap pace - so this correlates with my 3k lap times.

Over the spring try more speed based sessions - often people do two interval track sessions but I imagine this is quite hardcore.

Fartlek: I try to put some sprints in my runs (particularly at at the start) so you are pushing yourself, this counts as another session.

Long run: Try to vary the pace not just run slow - e.g. run slow at the start, fast in the middle, and end on a sprint - or put some hill repeats on the run. Only run slow if you are pushing yourself with the mileage otherwise it's not really a session - it's a slow not-so long run - which isnt that useful.

I'm not sure of the wisdom behind 60-70 miles a week. However much you run, if you cannot run a proper 5k, you will always be limited by your speed. Up to a point you can do alright on mileage but you reach a point where it won't work. To get faster at 3k/5k, you get faster by running at paces faster than your race pace, which is why sessions are important.

Perhaps a little detailed but I've tried so many things to get my 5k time further as I found it stayed the same for some months. I have received a lot of conflicting advice, and sessions on the back of a higher mileage is what helped me improve my speed, I can see myself getting faster. You could periodise your training when you have a period of higher mileage (where you are unlikely to see significant speed gains) followed by a period of more speedwork with more sessions (where it all comes together).

Unfortunately I've done it all a little wrong and a little out of sycn, I did my mileage over the summer and am running fast when everyone else is doing lots of miles over the winter and will do the speedwork in the spring. Live and learn.

Good luck !!!

You're a masochist Revenged! That is one tough session. Although in "The Competitive Runner's Handbook", the author speaks highly of his rare but effective session of 20 x 400m at sub 5 min pace!!!!!! So there is probably something in it.

__________________
Running Goals for 2010
1. Sub 5 minute mile(Done in 04:53)
2. Sub 17 5k (Done in 16:57)
4. Sub 1:20 half marathon
4. Sub 36 10k

Don't you do longer endurance intervals over the winter ?

I thought this was standard.

This will be my first winter track training, so I don't know. Couple of weeks ago, I did 10 x 400 (varied between 72-79 seconds) and that almost killed me!

__________________
Running Goals for 2010
1. Sub 5 minute mile(Done in 04:53)
2. Sub 17 5k (Done in 16:57)
4. Sub 1:20 half marathon
4. Sub 36 10k

After reading this, Im thinking maybe Illhave to shelve the sub 20 in january. Im really a half marathon runner, and although Id like to get my 5k and 10k down, I want to improve at the halfs and thats my priority!

Not being defeatist, but maybe i would get better results trying a 5k in sub 20 in the spring next year, after I have built my volume. However, Ill try that 16 x 400m in 75-80 and see how i manage, but in honesty i think that sort of speed is a bit beyond me at the moment. What sort of recovery did you take?

For 400 reps, we take 60 seconds recovery.

__________________
Running Goals for 2010
1. Sub 5 minute mile(Done in 04:53)
2. Sub 17 5k (Done in 16:57)
4. Sub 1:20 half marathon
4. Sub 36 10k

Will give it a bash tomorrow then!

I would still do intervals over the winter even training for a half marathon. A high volume session like 14-16x400 would be ideal. Don't worry about the speed of the laps, just complete the session. To run a 5k in 20 min you don't need to be running anything like at my pace - so please don't try to run laps in 75-80s - in hindsight maybe I shouldn't have told you that. For you I would not aim for running faster than 90s laps and give yourself a minute recovery if you want to do such a high volume session. I see many so people run too fast in sessions and give up way before the end so bear this in mind.

I already do that session at 92/93 pace, and can go a bit faster, but I tend to save the fastest lap till the last one!

I really dont think i could do 80 second laps just now, maybe in time, but Ive been taught to complete the session as you say otherwise there is no benefit! I have a lot of interval sessions planned for the winter, I feel they are the ones that increase my fitness. I also like track, and I really work on those sessions. Who knows, I might go sub 20 in january, but Im not going to make that the biggest priority!