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  #1  
Old 31st Jan 13, 02:36 PM
Opandescent Opandescent is offline
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Most Effective vs. Most Efficient running form

Been doing some research on the internet (and have been running/jogging for the past few months). I've tried Ct5k to start out, read scooby's article on the matter, looked up effective runners to try to imitate their stride and done some personal experimentation.

By effective I mean 'fast' and by efficient I mean 'run but don't get tired easily'.

I was wondering if anyone knew any tips on how to run 1) effectively and 2) efficiently. I understand that both require very different things (like fast twitch and slow twitch muscles, etc) but I was looking for how to optimize both or either one at once. I will be going into mandatory military service soon (about a year) so I need to get myself prepped for daily long-distance high-intensity running.

I don't want to push to extreme pain training for it (I've done it before, about two years back I did a ferocious push-till-you-drop regime, in an attempt to get myself used to pushing. I kept this up for a year and never did get used to pushing myself into/through intense headaches, and instead developed a horrible running form). Also, I don't want to be pushing to keep up with regular training inside the military when I do go into military service, so I am seeking a way in which I can optimize form.

Do any seasoned runners here have tips on proper form for efficient running and effective running? Please answer separately unless it is a general rule that applies to both. Anything that you feel is useful to know would help.

I would also like to know how to avoid braking prematurely while running (I heard overextending stride causes this, but is there anything else?). I've also had much difficulty trying to maintain a steady view of the surroundings like Scooby advises (I find my head bounces a lot while trying to land on forefoot rather than hindfoot) and am having a lot of difficulty trying to 'glide' across the treadmill/track like he recommends.

Last edited by Opandescent; 31st Jan 13 at 02:49 PM..
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  #2  
Old 31st Jan 13, 06:02 PM
Andy A Andy A is online now
Real Name: Andy Ayres   Gender: Male  
 
It depends on the speed of the runner and the runners anatomy and physiology.

Generally speaking if a person is running fast they will make ground contact with the forefoot, hence over a 100m course Bolts heels never touch the ground and running at slower speeds people tend to run heel toe. Speeds between heel toe and Bolt speed people will run with a mid-foot toe step.

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  #3  
Old 31st Jan 13, 07:08 PM
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DarrenL DarrenL is offline
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Sprinters run on their toes and get up high. They don't run on their forefoot, at least all those I've ever trained with or watched.

Anything other than sprinting is down to anatomy and physiology. Some people heel strike, some mid foot, some forefoot. There is no best solution, everyone is different and can handle different muscle stress and repetition.
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  #4  
Old 31st Jan 13, 07:39 PM
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Martyn Martyn is offline
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I use this as a good explanation of running style. If you have a year then you also have the luxury of time. Spend a good few months building up your aerobic base. That means leaving speed work until later in the year.
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  #5  
Old 31st Jan 13, 08:30 PM
Andy A Andy A is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenL View Post
Sprinters run on their toes and get up high. They don't run on their forefoot, at least all those I've ever trained with or watched.

Anything other than sprinting is down to anatomy and physiology. Some people heel strike, some mid foot, some forefoot. There is no best solution, everyone is different and can handle different muscle stress and repetition.
When I say forefoot I mean the metatarsal heads and anything distal to them and i'd define the toes as being the phalanges. Unless wearing ballet shoes I don't see how anyone can make ground contact with just the toes and not the metatarsals. The only time this would be possible would be toe-off at the end of stance phase.

I might be wrong though.
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  #6  
Old 31st Jan 13, 08:46 PM
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DarrenL DarrenL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy A View Post
When I say forefoot I mean the metatarsal heads and anything distal to them and i'd define the toes as being the phalanges. Unless wearing ballet shoes I don't see how anyone can make ground contact with just the toes and not the metatarsals. The only time this would be possible would be toe-off at the end of stance phase.

I might be wrong though.
I have to say, you're more knowledgeable in this area than me. I'm just going on what I've seen in 20mph blurs , there is no educational background
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  #7  
Old 1st Feb 13, 03:41 PM
d87heaven d87heaven is offline
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AndyA (podiatrist) and myself(sports therapist and technique coach) have differing ideas of running and technique and it is difficult to not turn the thread into a bit of a 'discussion' but here goes.
Every pattern of movement has a optimum way and a many suboptimal ways. For instance I can lift a dumbell with my arm out straight or I can curl it using my bicep. One is less likely to result in wasted energy or possibly injury than the other. Its a bit simplistic but it illustrates a point. Land as close as you can under the body, keep the knees bent, run tall from the waist upwards and marshmellow from the waist downwards. Arms go back and forth. Don't think about footstrike, the closer you land under the body the less it is possible to 'heel strike'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy A View Post
It depends on the speed of the runner and the runners anatomy and physiology.

Generally speaking if a person is running fast they will make ground contact with the forefoot, hence over a 100m course Bolts heels never touch the ground and running at slower speeds people tend to run heel toe. Speeds between heel toe and Bolt speed people will run with a mid-foot toe step.

.
Better tell Bolt that he is running slow and to change his style. Bolt easy pace
Define what speed sprinting is. My sprint is anothers easy pace, are you saying that the amount of effort for each person is the part where they start to stop heel striking?
Whats a mid-foot strike? How can you land on the arch?
Whats the anatomy of a heel striker?



Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenL View Post
Sprinters run on their toes and get up high. They don't run on their forefoot, at least all those I've ever trained with or watched.

Anything other than sprinting is down to anatomy and physiology. Some people heel strike, some mid foot, some forefoot. There is no best solution, everyone is different and can handle different muscle stress and repetition.
I don't see any sprinter landing on the toes here slow mo sprint All land on the ball of foot and close under the body.
Can you describe the anatomical and physiological differences that cause the heel strike? i do have clients with pelvic tilts that seem to find it harder to keep posture and alignment but this is usually a case of modern living and lazy muscles that need a bit of re-education.
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  #8  
Old 1st Feb 13, 04:20 PM
Andy A Andy A is online now
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D87heaven. Rearfoot = talus and calcaneus. Midfoot= cuboid, navicular, and cuneiforms. Forefoot = metatarsals and phalangies
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  #9  
Old 1st Feb 13, 04:24 PM
d87heaven d87heaven is offline
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That's one of the questions answered. I'll add another. How can you land on midfoot? Its either ball of foot, heel or both (although I would say its almost impossible to actually knowingly achieve an even balance)
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  #10  
Old 1st Feb 13, 06:54 PM
Andy A Andy A is online now
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Mid foot landing is generally considered the lateral edge of the foot. The ball of the foot I would define as the 1st MPJ rather than all of the MPJs but there is no formal definition for the ball of the foot as its a lay term. To land on the ball of the foot only would be near impossible as it would involve the foot landing in a pronated position but during swing phase and at the point of contact the foot is slightly supinated.
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  #11  
Old 1st Feb 13, 07:37 PM
d87heaven d87heaven is offline
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You can make initial contact with the ground on the lateral side but you cannot support yourself on the lateral edge and weight bear. I will say again you cannot land on the arch. If you are not weight bearing you haven't landed, you are not on support. And what if the BoF is a laymans term, I see no relevance.

And still the other questions remain unanswered.
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  #12  
Old 1st Feb 13, 09:51 PM
Andy A Andy A is online now
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No one ever said you could weight bear on the arch. You can weight bear on the lateral edge and do so on every step you take. Try standing on one leg then supinating your foot, hey presto your weight bearing on the lateral edge!!! If the foot is in contact with the ground then there is a ground reaction force whether or not its taking full body weifgh
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  #13  
Old 1st Feb 13, 10:28 PM
d87heaven d87heaven is offline
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Now try jumping up and down on the lateral edge. Now try running on it. Now try landing on your cuboid.
You stated a mid foot landing. By your own description this is lateral but you state earlier that midfoot is cuboid, navicular etc.
I'm off to sprint on my fifth met....or will I be not sprinting and heel striking.
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  #14  
Old 2nd Feb 13, 07:01 AM
Andy A Andy A is online now
Real Name: Andy Ayres   Gender: Male  
 
Heel strike = calc. Mid foot = lateral edge of the plantar aspect of the foot. Forefoot strike = distal met heads, usually 4+5 followed by 1,2,3 or all 5 at once.

The mid foot consists of the cuboid navicular and 3 cuneiforms.

As I said before these are my definitions as there aren't any official definitions as far as I'm aware.

Yes I can hop on the lateral edge of my foot, that is perfectly feasible. I can also run on it but this lacks propulsions and is not as efficient or comfortable has heel toe running.
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  #15  
Old 2nd Feb 13, 08:01 AM
d87heaven d87heaven is offline
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Well done Now go for a run using your new found style.
How can you seriously expect anyone to land on the cuboid?
.
I think this part has reached a natural end and we should move on. How about addressing the sprinting question.
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