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Discussion Starter #1
As previously stated, my 1st 10k is on 2nd november (anybody else doing the billericay 10k ?) anyway, i know i can run short distance i.e. 3 to maybe 4 miles at the pace i need to sustain to meet my target of 45 minutes for 10k.

so i need to run circa 7.5 min miles, if i'm starting off at this pace and still have it after say 3 miles, should i try to up it or just keep it there and go ba!!$ out for the last mile.

do peeps on here usually know when they are on for their target time?
is it too late to get it back if i get off to a slower start than the required pace?

sorry too many questions.
 

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Hi Craig.

To run 45 minutes is 7:15 pace.

People have their own ways of pacing theirselves.

Most people seem to start slower and gradually pick up the pace mile by mile.

I ran a 45:37 PB in Southend last weekend without looking at my watch once,

I felt that I was running as well as I could,if I had looked and seen I was behind where I wanted to be,I couldn`t have picked up the pace anymore.

I`m running Billericay along with 3 others from the Forum.

Hope to see you there.
 

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Tough call... especially since it's your first 10k...

A 'negative split' is desirable for any event above a 5k... that is to run the second half of the race quicker than the first... so yes, it is possible to run below target pace in the first half and make it up in the second, but only to a point (i.e. if you're way behind, you'll never make it up). At the same time, going balls out from the start and trying to hang on is unlikely to work - I've read reports from a few experts saying that any time gained by running quicker than you're capable of in the first half of the race, will be repaid DOUBLE in the second half of the race (i.e. say your physical limit is 60mins for 10k, and you cross halfway in 29mins - 1min ahead of your physical ability... you'll run around 2mins slower in the second half, and finish up @ 61mins)

If you're confident that you're capable of 45mins, and that's your main goal, I'd run at 7:15/mi pace for the first 8km, and then give anything else you can in the last 2km.

If you think you can achieve better than 45mins, then probably limit your pace to 7:15 for the first 5km, then run based on how you feel...

If you're 'hoping' for 45mins, but you're not confident of your ability to achieve it, revise your pace a little to something you feel confident with, and then push hard in the latter stages to see what you can achieve.

Ultimately its your first 10k race - of course you want to do as well as possible, but the chances are you'll get a PB in your next 10k anyway! so don't worry too much about perfect pacing, treat it as an enjoyable experience. As others often say, you never have a second first race, and it's the only time you're GUARANTEED a PB :)
 

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My advice is to run the race at your optimum pace; i.e. what feels right to you and don't even bother to look at your splits during the race. If there are are mile or kilometre markers en route, click your watch at each one of them but without noting the time. The time to look at your watch is after the race has finished. You can look back on your split times and analyze your performance, decide whether you set off too fast, or too slow, and what changes, if any, to make next time.
So far as my races go, I'm more concerned with tactics than times. I cover those runners I regard as my main rivals and analyze their past performances too so I know how to cope with them. As you race more you'll come across the same faces time and again, the same names on the Results sheet. Take note of those who finish slightly ahead of you and make them your target for next time.
Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Tough call... especially since it's your first 10k...

A 'negative split' is desirable for any event above a 5k... that is to run the second half of the race quicker than the first... so yes, it is possible to run below target pace in the first half and make it up in the second, but only to a point (i.e. if you're way behind, you'll never make it up). At the same time, going balls out from the start and trying to hang on is unlikely to work - I've read reports from a few experts saying that any time gained by running quicker than you're capable of in the first half of the race, will be repaid DOUBLE in the second half of the race (i.e. say your physical limit is 60mins for 10k, and you cross halfway in 29mins - 1min ahead of your physical ability... you'll run around 2mins slower in the second half, and finish up @ 61mins)

If you're confident that you're capable of 45mins, and that's your main goal, I'd run at 7:15/mi pace for the first 8km, and then give anything else you can in the last 2km.

If you think you can achieve better than 45mins, then probably limit your pace to 7:15 for the first 5km, then run based on how you feel...

If you're 'hoping' for 45mins, but you're not confident of your ability to achieve it, revise your pace a little to something you feel confident with, and then push hard in the latter stages to see what you can achieve.

Ultimately its your first 10k race - of course you want to do as well as possible, but the chances are you'll get a PB in your next 10k anyway! so don't worry too much about perfect pacing, treat it as an enjoyable experience. As others often say, you never have a second first race, and it's the only time you're GUARANTEED a PB :)
i have only based my assumtions on training times and i've managed 4 miles in 30 minutes on the back of a hard spinning class and i had something in the tank at the finish, i.e i could have done more. i feel that my cycling has got me used to pacing myself but i guess that you can blow up easier on a short run than a short cycle ride.
i'm going to test myself prior to this event.

any ideas of a good self test, i.e. do i just go and run a 10k in my best time and look at split times? or is there another way?

Craig
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Craig.

To run 45 minutes is 7:15 pace.

People have their own ways of pacing theirselves.

Most people seem to start slower and gradually pick up the pace mile by mile.

I ran a 45:37 PB in Southend last weekend without looking at my watch once,

I felt that I was running as well as I could,if I had looked and seen I was behind where I wanted to be,I couldn`t have picked up the pace anymore.

I`m running Billericay along with 3 others from the Forum.

Hope to see you there.

hi dave,

good to see another forum member is running the race.
have you done this one before?
fast course? slow course?

i bet you are aiming for a sub 45 too:)

i'm a bit fanatical about time and p.b's having been a cycling time triallist for a few years, every second really does count and we are totally geeky about time/gadgets/power measurement etc etc.

i am thinking of getting a garmin 101 as i reckon this will be my best pacing tool.

do you use anything like this?

Craig
 

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frustratingly, nothing can really replicate a race scenario other than a race, so it' quite hard to predict race times from training.

What I would say though, is that if you can run something like a 46min time-trial, then the chances are you could manage 45min in a race (though of course it's no guarantee!).

I'm sure you'll soon be analysing how your race went and where you can improve, regardless of what happens on race day :)
 

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Craig.

This will be the 3rd time I`ve run Billericay.

It`s a nice course,not to up and down.

Ran it in 46:22 last year.which was my PB until Southend last week.

As for sub 45,doubtful. I didn`t think I had a sub 46 in me until last week.

Dave.
 

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Tough call... especially since it's your first 10k...

A 'negative split' is desirable for any event above a 5k... that is to run the second half of the race quicker than the first... so yes, it is possible to run below target pace in the first half and make it up in the second, but only to a point (i.e. if you're way behind, you'll never make it up). At the same time, going balls out from the start and trying to hang on is unlikely to work - I've read reports from a few experts saying that any time gained by running quicker than you're capable of in the first half of the race, will be repaid DOUBLE in the second half of the race (i.e. say your physical limit is 60mins for 10k, and you cross halfway in 29mins - 1min ahead of your physical ability... you'll run around 2mins slower in the second half, and finish up @ 61mins)

If you're confident that you're capable of 45mins, and that's your main goal, I'd run at 7:15/mi pace for the first 8km, and then give anything else you can in the last 2km.

If you think you can achieve better than 45mins, then probably limit your pace to 7:15 for the first 5km, then run based on how you feel...

If you're 'hoping' for 45mins, but you're not confident of your ability to achieve it, revise your pace a little to something you feel confident with, and then push hard in the latter stages to see what you can achieve.

Ultimately its your first 10k race - of course you want to do as well as possible, but the chances are you'll get a PB in your next 10k anyway! so don't worry too much about perfect pacing, treat it as an enjoyable experience. As others often say, you never have a second first race, and it's the only time you're GUARANTEED a PB :)
I actually don't fully agree with this. For me, I find my best times come when I go out hard. Never been good at negative splits. For me, I tend to get a psychological boost if I'm well ahead of my desired pace early in the race and then try to hold on. But maybe I have got it all wrong and would run 10ks etc faster if I followed this advice. But if the first 5k is a bit slow I tend to lose motivation for the rest of the run and think about all the effort required in the second half. For every PB I've ran in training (5k, 10k, 5 mile, 10 mile and half marathon), I've always ran the first half fast and always ran the first mile or two 30 second + faster than my average pace throughout the run. Maybe I'm just a weirdo though ;)
 

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There's certainly such a thing as going off too slow though... like you JBBury - I find that if I don't start off by pushing hard, I finish behind my target time. I've never looked into how my 5k split compares to my finish time (I don't tend to take a 5k split).

I think additionally the negative split is desirable from a physiological point of view... a runners psychology will always be the dominating factor... as you say
JBBury said:
if the first 5k is a bit slow I tend to lose motivation for the rest of the run and think about all the effort required in the second half"
... at which point you probably don't put 100% effort in. Almost as if you're telling yourself "well if I don't cross the halfway point faster than I did on my PB, then it's not really possible to beat my PB by the finish line"... Perhaps when you cross the 5k marker try telling yourself "well I know I can run the first 5k faster, but I've saved a huge chunk of energy by running it at this pace, which means I'll now be able to run the second half faster than the first!"

EDIT(1): One I've thing always tried to remind myself of as well - equal pace is desirable in a race, but equal pace does not mean equal effort... maintaining the same pace throughout should feel a LOT harder at the 9k marker than the 1k marker :)

EDIT(2): I hope that doesn't sound critical JBB... it's certainly not meant to! Just a different viewpoint that may be worth trying in a quest to shave off a few more seconds? It may well not work for you at all! :lol:
 

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There's certainly such a thing as going off too slow though... like you JBBury - I find that if I don't start off by pushing hard, I finish behind my target time. I've never looked into how my 5k split compares to my finish time (I don't tend to take a 5k split).

I think additionally the negative split is desirable from a physiological point of view... a runners psychology will always be the dominating factor... as you say
... at which point you probably don't put 100% effort in. Almost as if you're telling yourself "well if I don't cross the halfway point faster than I did on my PB, then it's not really possible to beat my PB by the finish line"... Perhaps when you cross the 5k marker try telling yourself "well I know I can run the first 5k faster, but I've saved a huge chunk of energy by running it at this pace, which means I'll now be able to run the second half faster than the first!"

EDIT(1): One I've thing always tried to remind myself of as well - equal pace is desirable in a race, but equal pace does not mean equal effort... maintaining the same pace throughout should feel a LOT harder at the 9k marker than the 1k marker :)

EDIT(2): I hope that doesn't sound critical JBB... it's certainly not meant to! Just a different viewpoint that may be worth trying in a quest to shave off a few more seconds? It may well not work for you at all! :lol:
I do see your point, and you are probably right :p I need to experiment with different strategies. See that's what is so good about 5ks. You don't have to think about it. You just run it!
 

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aye but it bloody hurts :push:

Has any of this waffle been of use to you Wilpert? (genuine question!)

If it hasn't then I'll split some of this chit chat out from the main topic into a new thread of it's own... ;)
 

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I tend to get a psychological boost if I'm well ahead of my desired pace early in the race and then try to hold on.
That's not the way to win races though. In order to win you've got to be able to crank up the pace in the second half. Watch any good class race on the track and just watch them on the last lap. The last lap is invariably the fastest.
Oh, and good to hear you've actually started racing at last. You can take over from old Runningfox!
Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
aye but it bloody hurts :push:

Has any of this waffle been of use to you Wilpert? (genuine question!)

If it hasn't then I'll split some of this chit chat out from the main topic into a new thread of it's own... ;)
yes very useful,

i keep referring back to my cycling because it the only thing i can compare with and in a good time trial pacing is paramount, i have a pretty good idea of where i am at on the bike just from ave hr, i.e i can see i'm averaging 180 on a 10 mile tt after 5 miles and i know i'm on for a time within a few seconds, however i tend not to use hr on the running, as mine is a bit inconsistent wheni run so i plan to use ave speed per mile instead.
as for starting off too hard, that's got my name all over it but i just cant contain myself.

the difficulty is (again) with cycling, i can ride the same course on an evening 10 every week in the season and try all different approaches, bike set up pacing heart rate blah blah, but with running it's not so easy to see where you are at unless you do a trial run or race every week on the same course.
 

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That's not the way to win races though. In order to win you've got to be able to crank up the pace in the second half. Watch any good class race on the track and just watch them on the last lap. The last lap is invariably the fastest.
Oh, and good to hear you've actually started racing at last. You can take over from old Runningfox!
Cheers!
Well, first race isn't until January, but I've paid the money so I ain't backing out. Must sign up for the Edinburgh half marathon too before xmas to make sure I stay on a roll :)
 

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Hi craig.

Hope to see you there I am running it too, hoping to get a sub 50 myself just missed it at southend a week or so ago, curses.

Plenty of sound advice already been given, good luck :d

TT
 

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personally i use my garmin and constantly check my distance/ time.. at the very least i find that the doing the calculations in my head as im running along helps me to take my mind off the running part.

i also aim to do just under my target pace for 7-8km and then crank it up a bit for the last 2-3 km

dont forget aswell that if you dont know the route there may be a hill/ some part of the route that ur pace will drop.. so i try to build a but of a cusion into my target
 
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