[SRB]

Hello all.

I am currently running around 32:30 for 10km. I have pushed the milage up to 100 miles a week which i intend to hold for a few weeks.

The question i need answering, preferably by someone with personal experience is this;

When would it be wise to reduce the milage and start adding quality if i want to hit a peak performance on Jan 16 08 and more importantly Feb 06 08??

I am off to italy for a couple of weeks warm weather training up untill the 3rd of Jan and i intended to mainly get in some milage and strength training in the form of hill running and tempo runs until i get back and then add some speed. Not sure if this is leavining enough time though as it will be only 2 weeks until my first big race.

Any comments will be gratefully appreciated.

 

[Fulmar]

Hello and willkommen SRB

32'30''... hmmm... I hope to get there within the next 5 years but that might be just wishful thinking

Anyway, to the point.
With an important race in early January I would drop the hill work next week. But then, if your big goal is in February, then it may be worth it racing in January with slightly heavy legs which will be better trained for the big one in February.

How many times a week are you doing reps?
Do you train once or twice daily?
How long is(are) your long run(s)?

 

[richardsimkiss]

Whilst I can't offer you any advice in terms of tapering for maximum performance, I will offer you great praise for you 10k times! Excellent stuff!

 

[SRB]

Hello and willkommen SRB

32'30''... hmmm... I hope to get there within the next 5 years but that might be just wishful thinking

Anyway, to the point.
With an important race in early January I would drop the hill work next week. But then, if your big goal is in February, then it may be worth it racing in January with slightly heavy legs which will be better trained for the big one in February.

How many times a week are you doing reps?
Do you train once or twice daily?
How long is(are) your long run(s)?

Hello,

Thanks for taking the time to write. I am doin reps once a week but lately due to increased milage and weekly races i have found them a real struggle. I try to only train once daily as i get hurt easily and my daily run is 75-90 mins long done first thing in the morning before work. My long runs are between 18 and 20 miles.

I do run twice daily but only on hard days. I go for a 5 mile jog the morning of a race to loosen up.

I did race on the weekend with a time of 33:24 but i was really heavy legged on my morning run but that will dissapear with this weeks training as my legs become acustomed to the milage.

Any help will be gratefully appreciated.

Regards,

Steve

 

[Katten]

With times like that, maybe you could give us some pointers? :d

 

[Fulmar]

Lets put this in a simple way:
I have never run that fast and haven't even put in the type of training needed for it.
But if I would start coaching you now the first thing I would do would be to reduce mileage.

You seem to be using the Lydiard approach with such long runs.
I guess that if that was the correct training for your current condition, you should be running under 31' for 10Km with the amount of miles you are covering every week now.
A weekly long run of up to 20 miles is training for a marathon.

I think that it could be a positive change to use some of the energy you spend on those looong runs to, being more rested, feel and run better in your reps.

There are different approaches to training but I prefer quality to quantity.
Check the Marathon threads and you will see what sort of mileage Runnningfox did in training to eventually manage 2h53' in a marathon.
Not many people would believe he would be able to make it on such "low mileage".

It would be interesting to know what sort of times you currently do between 800m and half-marathon.

 

[SRB]

Hi Fulmar,

Yeah i have been following a Lidyard approach and Yeah i think your right with regards to the long runs. My reason for adopting what seems like marathon training is i was reluctanct to run twice daily due to past injury worries so i tried to do as much as possible on one run which over the last year has ended up as a 13 miler most mornings. But alas i think i have lost my way somewhere.

I agree with your assessment and I will reduce the long run and save the energy for the reps.

As for times for other races i ran 10 mile in 53:11 i will run a 5KM this weekend and let you know but apart from that i have no other best times.

As i only have 5 weeks until my first XC championship as was thinking along these lines(please tell me what you think), reduce milage of long run to 90 mins with each 30 min block being quick than the previous one (14 mile) every 3-4 days perform a speed session varying from short reps to long but i always tend to prefer long reps with short recoveries because i seem to respond better to them.

Once concern i do have is my poor ability on hills. I hope it is due to the milage as i thougth i was gernerally strong on hills but a race yesterday left me struggling both up and down.

What do you think? Any help is gratefully appreciated and i would like to get some kind of plan ready for when i go to italy next friday as i will be able to sleep and train twice per day and get some runs in at altitude.

 

[richardsimkiss]

If you're tapering then personally i'd have a shorter long run... I'd have thought around an hour would suffice....

Also having identified hills and short reps as your weaknesses, these would be the first areas I'd address!

 

[Fulmar]

The place where I'm accessing the internet will close in 5 minutes so I don't have time to give you a proper reply and this is not something to be hasted.

I leave you with an article though, which may be useful:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0004.htm

Above all, focus on the Yobes Ondieki case. It's a VERY simple approach to training but it worked wonders.
If I manage to heal a long-lasting groin injury which has kept me away from speed work for a year I will try that for myself this season.

As for the 10 workouts suggested in the end, they are just a few out of a huge variety you can even create yourself.
Out of those 10, I would definitlely suggest number 10 if you have good sense of pace.

All the best for your competition next weekend (I will probably only have internet again on Saturday night).

By the way, do you coach yourself?
I am very interested in your progression.
Once again, hope all goes well in your 5K and let us know how it went when you can.

 

[SRB]

Hi Fumar,

Yes i do coach myself. I did get coached once but i found the training too easy or maybe the coach was too cautious but i lost interest with his programme. Since going a alone i have improved dramatically but with it i think i have lost objectivity.

Thanks for the article from PPonline. It has been duly printed off and read a hundrded times!!

If you would like to email me i can be reached on [email protected]. I will tell you what i have planned if you like and you can give me your objective opinion. Be warned tho i'm a little head strong!

Seriously, thanks for taking the time to respond and i look forward to hearing from you again.

 

[PinkCheeseMuffler]

Just an extra little point when it comes to big race prep - count back from race day 10 days or 2 weeks - for you, young, strong and fast, maybe 10 days - and that has to be your last serious workout. Nothing within that last 10 days can make you fitter; generally it is thought that it takes at least 10 days for a 'breakthrough' workout, ie one that shows progression in a key area eg hill reps, to show up in performance. Thereafter, everything you do has to have the aim of making sure you get to the start line fresh, raring to go, uninjured, well rested etc etc. Good luck!

 

[SRB]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I have never tried resting for such a long amount of time but i will give it a go and see what happens. My normal rest is 2 days easy prior to the race. This means i will still do my 13 mile run the day before a race so it should be interesting to see the affect of having such an easy 10 days prior to the event.

Gotta be honest tho it makes me kinda nervous!!

thanks

 

[Fulmar]

SRB, how did it go?

As for what PinkCheeseMuffler (thank you Bill Gates for creating "Copy/Paste" ) said, that can really be the case when tapering for a long race, like the Marathon.
For 10K races, as you can do a lot more of them in a year, you have to consider your priorities.
If it's a race that you will use as part of your training, as a test or just as a long speedwork session, I do (just like you) my last hard workout 3 days before the race and then take two days to rest (rest being a 10/12K followed by a 5/8K run the following day).
If it is the Big One, I will do my last hard session (for 10K, usually a 10x200m session) no less than 5 days before.
It makes a big difference to get to the start line with very fresh, rested, speed-hungry legs.

(will get back to you soon by email after hearing about your race thank you for it)

 

[SRB]

Hi Fumar,

I raced yesterday. There were two options. A 4.6KM XC and a 16 KM very hilly XC accurately measured. I went for the 16KM because i thought i would get more out of it than the 4.6km race. The route had a couple of really long hills well in excess of a mile.

The race went well enough felt quite strong although i did to 10 x 150 hard 2 days before. I won the race in a time of 55:07. I was at the front the whole way so i had the ability to use it as a really good session. I surged on the hill focusing on cadence and hard efforts and recovered on the descents. Surprised really.

I could do a shorter effort in training in the form of a 5km time trial if you could do with the results in a few days?

hope your well and how is portugal?

 

[richardsimkiss]

That's a great time for what sounds like a very challenging course. Congrats on the victory SRB!

 

[SRB]

Thanks richard. How is your running going at the moment?

 

[richardsimkiss]

I've upped the mileage quite a lot over the last couple of weeks or so and feel fantastic for it! I think in the past i've just lacked the self discipline to get out there and train. I've definately found joining a club to be one of the most beneficial things I've done since I started running.

Hopefully I'll see my race times start to improve and who knows in a few years time I might be able to achieve something close to your times! Roll on my next race!! (12k - January 20th)

 

[Fulmar]

SRB,
I wish there was a clapping smiley because that would be the one I would choose now
A victory and such a good time (especially when considering the amount of training you put in before the race) are quite an achievement.
Well done!

That 5K time trial could be very useful but maybe it would be better to do it later in the season as your Winter goal-races are so close.
What are your goals (if any already set) for Spring and Summer?

Over here things are going well training wise. I will run a 10K race on the 31st of December just to see what sort of condition I'm in.
But the day before I have another 10K which may take something out as we are planning to run it somewhere between 38' and 40' - I sometimes run as a guide for blind runners and this race on the 30th will be one of those.

My life will take a big turn next year and that will start by quitting this job and leaving the rented room where I have been for the past 3 months.
In order to reflect a bit and get some inner strength, I am going to take a few weeks to travel.
Now... I see that you are based in Germany... How far from the Polish border are you?
I will be in Poland in mid-January and will later make my way to Scotland.
If you are not too far away and have some free time we could even find a race and meet - as long as we enter different distances

By the way, how old are you?

 

[SRB]

Richard,

You will have to let me know how it goes? Good luck staying on track through christmas!!

Hi Fumar,

Spring i will probably have a couple of weeks off in March to recover if i still have a persistant ache on the left knee but i have been cross frictioning it and it seems to be responding well so that may not be necessary.
There is a big run over here in April called the Hermannslauf. Its 30 KM race over multi terrain and quite high profile so if im in good shape then i might go for it.
As for summer i will have the Army track season coming up and the Local German Championships ranging from 800 to 10000. Haven focused on anything yet tho.
As luck would have it in January im on an Army exercise just east of Berlin but its unlikely i will be able to get away but it may be possible so let me know when your in Poland.

As for my age im 32. Started racing seriously 3 years ago and have knocked 4 minutes of my 10km time so im pleased enough.

The blind work sounds interesting and rewarding?

The travelling sounds just the tonic for a tired mind and hope it goes well.

 

[Fulmar]

I will get to Poland on the 5th of January and have no plans after that. I have been looking for a race there but I won't take cross-coutry shoes and I guess it will all depend on the snow situation for road races to be organized.

Running with the blind was how I came into athletics in first place. By chance.
It is very rewarding and, at least in my case, it made me understand a lot more about human nature and abilities (not all good things but still, important).

What are the standards for the World Army Championships in 10K? Would you have to go under 30'?
I know that there are some amazing runners there as most Kenyans are either in the Police or Armed Forces (or Japanese Corporate Teams) but I wonder if you could sneak in not having to run that fast