[Granty]

I would be interested to hear peoples view on the following.

I have now run 3 half marathons with the times as follows

2:18, 2:06 and 2:11

I'm beginning to think that this might be 'my time; and hence normal running speed, whilst training for these I only ran a couple of times a week (sometimes more but that was unusual)

I have now started to add a 3rd run into my weekly training which is mainly a hilly route to help.

Is it realistic to think that I might be able to at some point run say ...........1:40 or is aiming to get a sub 2hr the best that I might expect.?

 

[luthor1]

To run a 1hr40 half marathon, you have to have a VO2max of 45. To put it more simply, you when running at VO2max you should be able to run a mile in 6min43.

To quote Frank Horwill "To run a good marathon, you should be able to run a good half marathon, to run a good half marathon you need to be able to run a good 10k to run a good 10k....." you see the point.

Starting simply, get to the point where you can run a 6min43 mile at your VO2max using intervals, then it's a case of building the endurance.

What's your weight, height etc?

 

[Granty]

I'm ashamed to say that I am carrying a little excess poundage :embarrassed: I'm 6ft and weigh just under 15 st (Please don't tell me I'm clinically obese !! )

 

[luthor1]

Ok, well if your 'engine' got NO FITTER WHATSOEVER, and all that happened was you were to lose weight down to 13stones, your 2hr08min time would tumble to 1hr49, that's 19minutes faster, just by your engine having to push less mass along.

Now, since Seb Coe had a VO2Max of 82, and a weight of 54.5kg's, his "engine power" was 4469 (weight x VO2max). So cutting to the chase, if his engine was in a 13stone body he'd run a half marathon in 1hr 36.

So weight will get you to 1hr49, and upgrading your engine to that of seb coe will bring it down to 1hr 36.

I'm guessing you won't (like the rest of us!) get your engine that good, so losing weight to 13st and getting fitter through intervals will give you something like the 1hr 40 you are aiming for.

Workings for maths available on request

 

[Granty]

Fantastic Luthor !! - I have always tried to lose that little excess round the waist but did not actually realise that it would make that much difference to the overall time of a run.

Best get the salad bowl out for a few months.

 

[luthor1]

I'm at 14st now, down from 17.5 and I can tell you losing weight is absolutely amazing. Especially when I was so overweight and it wasn't like I was cutting into a healthy weight to find time, I was just getting TO a healthier weight and time was coming for free.

Do an experiment, do a 3k run as quick as you can, then carry a rucksack with 6.4kilo's in it and look at the time difference and check your heart rate at various times throughout... that's 1 stone, and you can lose 2 stone and still have a little more to go!

I'm aiming for 12.5 stone which is obviousy 9kg's away. When I start failing to lose weight, I'll just do a 3k with 6.4kg's in the rucksack and compare the time with my current best and that keeps me off the crisps until the craving goes away!!!

The other thing is the stress on the muscles and legs reduces massively, although I've had to take a few extra rest days recently as my body is lagging behind my heart in terms of fitness-growth and I'm gettig burnout

 

[hayley1977]

So lurthor1 in simpler terms, my sister the other day was saying that when she was a stone lighter she ran faster.
She is now just under 11 stone and 5'6 27 years old.
This being her heaviest she say's that she now runs slower then she used to, so shes right then?
But am i only faster than her because im only 8 stone and 5'4, if she lost a stone or more in weight would that mean she could be as fast as me?
Oh and does the DD boob job upfront slow her, thats her own doing if it does haha

 

[luthor1]

Ok, so you have your weight, and your engine power. You are lighter and currently going faster, this could mean you have a less powerful engine, just a MUCH lighter frame to push along, OR it could mean you have a MORE powerful engine AND less weight to push along.

If you post your respective best times at your current weight I'll see who would be faster if you were the same weight!

 

[luthor1]

What *can* happen, is that when you're heavier, you tend to train harder, and accept the fact you are tired and horribly sweaty and attribute it to being overweight and accept it as 'the way it is'. When you lose weight, running becomes easier, so you run easier. This means your engine can slightly fall away from you, thus tainting the predictions of weight loss.

If you train hard when you are heavy, train hard when you lose weight and maintain that engine you worked so hard to produce when training 'encumbered'!!

 

[hayley1977]

o.k im 8stone p.b 5km is 19.12
p.b 10km is 46.34

sister 10stone 11 p.b 5km is 22mins
p.b 10km is 54.21
thanks

 

[luthor1]

Ok, so your speed is not translating to the 10k very well... 10k should be MUCH faster for both of you given engine power... so you're endurance could improve a lot given your current 5k time. Your 10k time should be 41minutes give or take a minute.

You - engine power 2647
Sister - engine power 2993.

If your sister dropped from 10st8lbs to 9st her 5k time should drop to the same as yours

 

[hayley1977]

O.k thats interesting.
Does what you say take into account the type of race, 5km was flat and the 10km was flat and hilly.
The other thing was at 5'6 if my sister dropped her weight to 9stone she would be verging on under weight wouldnt she? thanks

 

[luthor1]

the translation would assume 2 laps of the 5km course! Sorry

9stone4 would be perfect for 5'6" according to Dr Stillman, however ideal long distance runners weight would be an average of 15% lighter than this.

You at 5'4", 8st7 would be ideal, so you are under the 'Stillman curve' however as you are a runner, -15% gives 7st7, so 8st is probably a perfect compromise weight for a club runner rather than world class, ie under 'normal weight' but higher than 'world class athelete ideal' weight.

 

[hayley1977]

Thanks for that is interesting.
Even if i did go down to 7stone 7 bet i cant run at world class athelete standards. Can but dream hayley
Forgot to ask anyone how do i improve my endurance then?

 

[Steve]

I've always considered my "fighting" weight when racing to be 10'10"...though I don't see that on the scales very often and am more like 11'3" at the moment at 5'8" tall.My best 5k is just over 20mins and my best 1/2m just over 92mins.

Do I have an engine worth talking about?!!

 

[Dave]

You`ve started something now luther.

46 Years young.

5' 9" Tall 12st 3lb.

5k 23:29

10k 49:20

1/2 Marathon 1:56:44

Room for improvement ????

 

[luthor1]

Hayley - if you're training for a 10km race, once a week run double 10k in 1 go at slower than 10k pace.... more to follow for you..

Steve - VO2max - 49, that's good! - engine - 3496 (coe = 4469 ) 10st10 is under normal, but VERY good fighting weight target

Dave - VO2max - 41.3, engine - 3210! Dave, you should be 11st6 'normal' and -15% 'world class athelete'. At 11st6 your 5km time would be 21min56 Intervals to bring your VO2max up...

 

[luthor1]

Dave - you're pace is not miles from mine, and I had amazing VO2max improvements using the following interval: 6 x 1minute effort at 10mph (6min/mile) with 60secs rest (up to 90secs to get your heart back down to near 120). I do it 2/3 times a week, but most recommendations say once a week (I'm experimenting). When that get's easy, push to 1.5 minutes efforts x 4 with 60sec rest, then 3 x 2mins etc etc... Watch for your heart not recovering during the rest... if it's still up at 155 (or so) after 90secs then quit and adjust the 10mph pace down a bit.

 

[luthor1]

Hayley - get your 10km best time, then find out your pace per MILE. Add 16 seconds per mile to that time, and that's the pace you run your 13mile training run at. You are probably going to take a fair few stretch rests to massage out those muscles initially

Basically 10km is 6.2miles (ish) so 16x6.2 is 99.2 secs, or 1min40. Aim to run your 13miles around 4minutes slower than 2 x best 10k time.

 

[Dave]

Thanks Luthor.

I appreciate that

I`ve never done intervals before. (Always looks so painful.....)

I will start after my next race.

Southend 10k in 11 days time.